Marie Claire: None of your known friends in deportation agree to talk about the body and love after the camps ...
Marceline Loridan-Ivens: My book may encourage them to do so. A friend in Haifa said, "It was appalling to see my mother's naked body, I do not want to talk about it. Whether with Simone (Veil) or Ginette (Kolinka), we never mentioned our bodies. In the camp, I do not remember. After, no. I tried to make them talk. Total silence or, as the only answer: "I am the wife of one man. "
"I saw everything about death without knowing anything about love," you said then, the body was dry.
Yes, my body was dry. The camp attacked him, failing to burn him. Being naked is associated with the order of a Nazi, his look and the verdict: death or reprieve. My lovers do not know what to do or say, they do not have more experience. At the time, we never talk about sexuality.
You have always been in transgression ...
I always refused gentrification, I slept when the other girls did not sleep. I have always been transgressive, and after the camps there have been no more givers in my life. I have always imagined this world surrounded by the same barbed wire, the same dangers, the same possible wounds, but inside you are dismantled, you are free.
Your husband, filmmaker Joris Ivens, will be the love of your life. He was 66, you, 36, and Jean, 18, when you formed this love trio that will last eleven years in an apartment rue des Saints-Pères ...
I loved them both. Jean, now a 71-year-old, told me recently: "Thanks to you it was very relaxed. Nobody suffered. Joris understood, for having lived free years 20. The photographer Germaine Krull, an anarchist, had left for a woman. It has always been possible to be free. Once I had sex with three men in the same day, I was very proud. And then, around 50 or 55, I was not looked at in the street anymore. It was a breath, to no longer play on the register of seduction.
Edgar Morin, a lover, writes: "At age 14 you learned everything, at age 33 you did not get old." And at 89?
The spirit does not age. Mine always has the same vivacity, the same desires, the same curiosity. I feel young, it's my body that no longer follows me.
One letter speaks about the girl and the survivor: "They cohabit in the same body, one seeks life, the other still flirts with death."
This duality has always been there, it is still there. Sometimes I ask myself, "Why do I hang around like this? Maybe we have to stop. "
"Love after" Marceline Loridan-Ivens, with Judith Perrignon, ed. Grasset, € 14, released on January 17th.